Georgia Sparling
This is Why We Write, a podcast of Lesley University. Every episode, we bring you conversations with authors in the Lesley community to talk about books, writing, and the writing life. I'm Georgia Sparling, and today I'm joined by Tracey Baptiste to talk about how to be creative under pressure, whether that's because of politics, pandemics, or life's everyday problems. Tracey is the author of the popular middle grade series, The Jumbies, and she has two new books coming out this year. She's a writing mentor and coach and is a faculty member in our MFA in Creative Writing program here at Lesley. She's also a repeat guest. So welcome back, Tracey.
Tracey Baptiste
Hey, Georgia. Thank you for having me back.
Georgia
Yes, we're so happy to have you back. So I think that I've heard a lot, among creative people in the past year, is the idea that, you know, a lot of us are working from home, so we should have written a million books and launched amazing creative projects. [laughs] But that's not really the reality, though. I've read a lot of books, but I haven't written that much. So what has it been like for you as a writer this past year?
Tracey
Yeah. You know, the interruption in routine, I think, has been the hardest part of dealing with the pandemic, for sure. Because the fact of the matter is, as writers, we actually kind of do rely on routine to get us to the writing desk, to get us to writing that first page or to get us to sitting down someplace to revise. We actually do very, very much rely on routine. And so the break in routine has been pretty devastating to a lot of people.
And the fact is a lot of people have been able to push through. We're used to working and we understand pressure, and we understand sort of intellectually, that we can only control the things that we can control. And so we're very much trying to push through. But there is certainly a mental and emotional cost to just trying to push through without recognizing that you're missing so much stuff from your usual life. And then when you, you know, hit that sort of breaking point where you're like "Wait, why? Why am I not writing?"
Georgia
Yeah. [laughs]
Tracey
And then you start beating yourself up about it. But if you really think about it, it's that you don't have the circumstances that you are used to, to be creative. And so it has become much, much, much more difficult to be creative. We need to give ourselves a break. It took me a while to to figure that out, though. It was not automatic. I will say that.
Georgia
You're a mom of two kids, I believe, and a husband. Have you guys all been in the same small space for the past year plus?
Tracey
Oh, my God. [laughs] Yeah, so yeah, that's hard. I mean, I think it would be harder if the kids were a lot younger. My kids are both teenagers. My daughter is a freshman in college, my son is a freshman in high school. And, you know, we fortunately live in a house that's large enough that everybody has their own space, so that during the day when everybody's working, because the kids have not been back to school since March of last year, when everybody is working, everybody is in their own space. The kids are in their own rooms, doing their own thing. I have my own office in the house, my husband has his own office in the house. He actually did not have an office pre-pandemic, we made him an office, in the guest room on the third floor. We literally moved our library out into the hallway, so that he could have an office space. So we're fortunate in that.
But I'm sure you know, and a lot of creatives will know and understand that when you are working in a space, the energy of a space becomes very different when there are other people in it, even if those other people are quiet. It's not really the same kind of environment. And so it once again becomes much more difficult to do your usual stuff, even if you are in your usual space, because you're very much aware that there are other people around.
For me, especially having the absolute silence of the house is kind of critical to my process because I really want to not be thinking about anything other than the work. Other than, you know, what it is I have in front of my face. And even though the kids are in their rooms doing their own thing, and my husband is up in his office doing his own thing, I still have them on the periphery of my mental capability, or, you know, they're like right on the edge of my senses at all times, because I know that at any moment, somebody might come in and want something, ask for something, be having difficulties with their computer, are hungry, [laughs] all the usual stuff.
And so there is this very tiny part of me that is still paying attention, that is still sort of like mommy mode is on. And so I cannot give my full attention to my work. That has also been hard, and also really exhausting because you're doing two jobs simultaneously. You have to do the job of parenting, while you are doing the job of your job, of writing. So it has been exhausting, even though we have been going nowhere and sitting down. [laughs]
Georgia
Yeah, I think a lot of working parents can for sure relate to that. I mean, I'm not one of those, but I just get to the end of the day, and I'm like, "Why am I so tired? I have gone nowhere."
Tracey
I have really leaned into taking naps in the afternoon. [laughs]
Georgia
Naps are pretty great. [laughs] So what kind of things are you hearing from your students, who, I'm sure, are all in the same boat in some way this past year?
Tracey
Yeah, it's really been difficult. You know, we've had a few students who have really struggled with the pandemic in various ways. One of my students was because they had to relocate, we've had people losing jobs, we have teachers who do our program, and who have had to do that same pivot from in-school teaching to online teaching, which is really, incredibly difficult. So we've had to have a lot of grace for our students, so that they can acclimate to what has become our new normal, even if it is a temporary normal. And, you know, giving them sort of more time to work through things.
In some cases, I've been much more lax about my requirements. And if you talk to any of my students, I'm the hardest pusher. I am that person. [laughs] Like, I came from a British educational system. And so there is no mercy in the way that I approach teaching. [laughs] You know, it's very merciless. It's very, like, "These are the things you have to do. It is not precise and exact. Why are you here? I am here to push you as hard as you can be pushed." Like, that's my job.
So I've had to let go of that, to meet this particular moment, so that students are not additionally stressed by their art as they are by the rest of their life. Because that's just, it is no conditions under which to create anything. The funny thing is, when I told people that I was going to lay back and they could hand in whatever they could possibly hand in, they amazingly kind of rose to the challenge. It's sort of freed something up in them, they were like, "Okay, now that I know that I don't have to do it, I'm gonna do it." It was kind of amazing.
Georgia
Psychology is fascinating. [laughs]
Tracey
The thing is that I didn't even plan that. Like, I wish I had been smart enough to have planned that, but no. It just kind of worked out that way.
Georgia
Nice. Recently, you gave a lecture during our creative writing winter residency about creating under pressure. And so I wanted to bring you on today to give some advice to our listeners, some wisdom on this subject. You've also got a series of videos on your website about this topic, and so, let's jump in. What's some advice?
Tracey
Oh my gosh. First of all, my best advice in any situation for anyone doing anything at all is always to rest and hydrate. Always. It's literally the first thing I say. If anybody comes to me, and they're stressed out, the kids, whomever, I'm like,"Have you had a nap today? Did you lie down? Maybe you need to relax. Have you drank any water?" That's always my go to advice. That's always my starting point. If you're rested and hydrated, a lot of other things become much more easy to do. And I do tell my students to rest and hydrate.
But the kinds of things that we talked about in the creativity under pressure seminar really has to do with the kinds of things that help an author in particular, to get to that writing desk because there are a lot of things that prevent us from getting to the writing desk, especially if writing is not your full time job. One of the first things I talked about when we got on to start this podcast was talking about a writing routine. So, I usually have my students read a book by Twyla Tharp, who is a choreographer, and I come from the dance world as well. So it's completely on brand for me to go to a dancer for advice. And it's called, "The Creative Habits." And it's just really about the habits that she has created for herself to be able to get into the studio every day and start her work. I remember first reading it, and thinking to myself, "I don't know that I really have a creative habit." I feel like a lot of my students who read the book and then come to my seminar are probably thinking "What are you talking about? I don't have a creative habit." But if you really think about it, there are certain things that you do before you go to the desk that are things that you always do.
So I'm going to quote from Twyla Tharp, she's, you know, much smarter than I am, certainly. And she says, "The routine is as much a part of the creative process as the lightning bolt of inspiration, maybe more. And this routine is available to everyone." Which I think is just such a genius way to think about the simple things that you do, the simple steps that you take, to get you to wherever it is that you need to be to work. And for me, after I started thinking about it, it really was as simple as-- you know, pre-pandemic, my husband and I would drop the kids off at school, we would come back home, have breakfast together, he would leave for work. And the dog and I, Barkley and I, would walk into the front door. And if it was warm enough, we'd like walk out on the porch, and Barkley would watch him walk down to the bus stop. But if it was cold, and by cold, I mean anything below 70 degrees. [laughs] If it's a cold, I would pick up Barkley and hold him up to the window in the door and he would watch Darrell head down to the bus stop. And I'd put Barkley down and say, "Okay, time to time go to work." And he would run up the stairs and run into the office and run into, he has a whole window seat in one of the windows in the office. And I would follow up after him and turn on the computer and we would start to work. And that was my habit. That was the thing that I did to get me to the office every day. And I didn't think that that was a routine.
But once I realized that that was my routine, when I didn't have it, you know, just acknowledging that I no longer have this routine was like "Okay, so I don't have this thing that I do every day that makes me get here. I acknowledge that. And this is the substitute that I'm doing in place of that, to still get to this place, to get me into this mindset to work." Because in that in that little time of watching my husband's walk out the door, and the dog and I coming up the stairs, my mind is being prepared to "Okay, she's going to work now." So by the time I get to that desk and I turn on the computer, I'm ready, and I had no idea that that was the thing that was getting ready.
So I very much encourage my students, and I would encourage everybody who's listening, to think about what it is they do that brings them to the writing work. And it might be as simple as "I need to get myself a cup of tea or a cup of coffee first, like that is the thing that I need to have, and I need to have it in this Copper Mug, or whatever it is, and it needs to, like sit on the right side of me when I go sit down in x and y chair." It literally could be that simple. Or it could be as simple as "This is the notebook that I use when I am writing, if I'm writing longhand. And as soon as I pick up that notebook, it's a signal to my brain that, okay, it's work time now, it's time to get cracking." And these are just little signals that we have to ourselves that get us to the writing work. So that's usually where we start with my seminar.
Georgia
So do you get any pushback from that? Do you find that writers tend to not like to think of themselves as being that regimented?
Tracey
I don't think anybody really dares push back against that. [laughs] I mean, I do usually start the class with the caveat that not everything that we say and I mean -- the truth is, it's not a craft class, right? It really is, kind of, a more emotional, artistic, being an artist kind of class, which is not really a typical master's degree type of class. But I feel like it is something essential, because you can have all of the craft classes and things like that in the world, but if you can't get yourself to the place where you can write, none of that matters. Sometimes that is the hardest part. So for me, I think it's really essential.
I do start the class with the caveat that not everything that will be said in the class, not everything we will talk about in the class, might work for everyone. And that's okay. It is a little bit of a granola, crunchy kind of class, and I'm not particularly a granola crunchy, kind of girl. [laughs] But I do very much feel that being mindful about what you do and how you come to the work is an essential part of your artistry. Once I preempt the things that we discuss in the class with that, I think everybody kind of comes to it in more of an open way.
Georgia
Yeah. All right. So what's another piece of advice you've got?
Tracey
Another thing that I find a lot that happens with people is trying to figure out what is happening outside, what is happening in the market, what other people are doing, I call it "not looking at your horizon." Because you can't see your horizon, if you're looking left and right, to see what everybody else is doing, right? And it really is about trying to figure out your core values and your core beliefs because what your art is, will always come from that.
That is not replicable by other people, somebody else, even somebody who grew up with you. I mean, Good Lord, we all have siblings, and you sometimes look at your siblings and you wonder, "Did we have the same parents? Like, how?" Even if you grew up with someone, you have the same sort of core beliefs and the same traditions and the same culture and whatnot. Who you are, your center is not going to be exactly the same, which means that the art that you produce will never be exactly the same as somebody else's. I think that one of the things that stymies people in their creativity is looking around and trying to replicate things that other people are doing, rather than looking inward and finding who they are and focusing on that.
The interesting thing about the pandemic is that there was no choice but to do that, because you saw no one. No one was going anywhere. [laughs] And nobody was seeing anybody else. Everybody was stuck in their house with themselves. You know, and as difficult as that is, it also was an opportunity to turn inward and to really start thinking about, what's important to me. What do I really want to say? And how do I really want to say it? And so this has been an opportunity, I think, in forcing people to focus inward a little bit. And why not use that to our advantage
That is also one of the things we talk about in class. And it's one of the things that it's hard to talk about in class, because, of course, it's not work that you can figure out in a 90 minute seminar, right? You know, I like to pose these kinds of questions to get people to start thinking, but I very much understand that a lot of the work of this particular kind of seminar happens after the seminar is finished. And my job really is just to present these ideas so that you can think about them later.
Georgia
Alright, that's great. Hit us with another piece of advice.
Tracey
Okay. One of my favorite things is, I tell people to let their subconscious be a part of the team. And it's such a weird thing to say, but I have this great story that I usually tell. And it's about the first person who ever made chocolate chip cookies. Do you know the story?
Georgia
No.
Tracey
Here's a caveat that I don't know the story exactly. [laughs] It's just the gist, right. [laughs] So basically, there was this lady who was going to make chocolate cookies, but she didn't have the cocoa powder that you usually put in the cookie mix to make chocolate cookies. But she did have like baking chocolate. So she decided to, like, in bricks, so she decided to like basically chop it up into tiny piece and she put that into the mix. And she figured that once she put it in the oven, the chocolate would melt and it would melt through the the whole the dough and would become a chocolate cookie. But that is not what happened. The bits stayed bits. And so the chocolate chip cookie was born. So I present that.
Georgia
Was her name Nestlé?
Tracey
According to Phoebe Buffet from Friends. [laughs] But I present this to my students. And, you know, everybody wants chocolate chip cookies, of course. But I say, "How do we know that she was actually the first person to have made chocolate chip cookies?" She was the first person to have done that, and decided that it was something and say, "Okay, this is now a new thing." But she may not have been the very first person to have done that.
So the thing that I'm trying to express is that sometimes you have to let your mind accept new things and other things. And, you know, this is where the rest and relaxation sort of comes into comes into play. Because you get the impression that if somebody is like super stressed about having something come out exactly the way that they want it to, and then it doesn't come out exactly the way that they want it to, if they're like really stressed and tight about it, they're not going to recognize that they've just done something new. It's going to be very hard to recognize that if you're like super tight and stressed out.
If you have had yourself a little nap and some hydration, it's gonna be a lot easier for you to be pliant when you come to the work so that when something doesn't turn out exactly the way that you expected it to, you can see the possibilities of it. And part of that is really allowing the subconscious to, or allowing your mind to wonder about the things that you have done. Allowing it a little bit of stretch time so that you can think more clearly about what you've done and how you've done it and whether or not this might be somehow useful. Maybe not necessarily useful in what you're doing right now, maybe. But maybe useful for something else and that is also part of the process. It's part letting your subconscious have some time to play with concepts and ideas and part being able to recognize your own good luck.
Georgia
Do you find that during the pandemic that you've done more rewriting? Like, maybe it comes out a little rougher to begin with?
Tracey
That's a good question. I am one of those like Catholic school girls who like, works my behind off all the time. So I actually worked on several projects over the course of the pandemic. And with the most recent one, I was actually doing a series of Instagram posts every day, where I had the concept for the story, and I had sort of written an outline for it one day. Well, not one day, but over the course of several days. But then I decided when I was starting to draft it, from zero words to -- I had set myself a goal of 50,000 words, because it's a middle grade novel -- I would document the entire thing. And so every day, I took a picture of myself or a picture of my desk or picture of Barkley or something, and I posted it with the current word count, before I started. And in 25 days, I had written the entire outline. And then I started -- so that was in October, and November, I took a break -- and in December, I started longhand editing it because that is always part of my process, to longhand edit it. And then in January, after residency, I started going in and making the changes into the document. Last week, Saturday, I realized that this was not the story that I wanted to write at all. So on Sunday, I started from scratch. [laughs]
Georgia
A collective groan goes up from the audience.[laughs]
Tracey
Yeah, it was. And the thing is, it's not that the concept of the story has changed, or the characters, or even some of the major plot points. It's that the kid who I thought I was writing, it was not that kid. He's a different -- it's the same person, the same name and everything --but he's a different person. The way that he approaches things, is different than I had thought. The way that he thinks about things, the way that he interacts with people is different. So there was no way to go in to the document that I had and tweak it to fit this whole new person. I really would have to just start over.
You know, doing it from the very beginning with this new sensibility in mind, with this new tone in mind, it's not a go through with a scalpel kind of situation. It really is a complete rewrite. And, I got to say, and it might be because of the pandemic teaching me patience, [laughs] because we've all had to have a lot of patience, that I did not immediately shut down, when I realized that this was going to have to be a completely rewritten book. I mean, I was not happy, for sure. [laughs]
Georgia
Yeah.
Tracey
But I also realized that well, if I'm realizing now that this has to be different, I am realizing that because it will be better. So, I could sit here and grouse about it, or I can just start and the faster I get started again, the faster I will get it finished again. And that really was just my approach to it. So I started Sunday, and as of today, I'm actually halfway through, and it's solely because I'm like the fastest typer in like all of creation. [laughs] And because I already know all the plot points and everything. I know where the story's going. It was just adjusting for tone and adjusting for the way that he would respond to the situations I already had. So, yeah. I've gone through half of it already. It'll need another solid edit...
Georgia
Right. Yeah.
Tracey
...but t's definitely better than it was.
Georgia
Is that kind of the kill your darlings?
Tracey
Yeah.
Georgia
Kill your darlings moment.
Tracey
Oh my god. Yeah, feel me. [laughs] It's one of those situations where I just try not to think about it I try not to think about myself, because if I think about myself, I will feel sad for me and pity me. But if I think about the story, like "This will be good for the story," then it's easier for me to just dive in and do it. But oh, my gosh, so much work to just throw away, so it hurt. It really hurt. [laughs] I know it'll be worth it. Or at least, I hope it'll be worth it when it's done. We shall see. Because sometimes you think you're doing a really good job, and then your editor is like, "Oh no. Yikes."
Georgia
[laughs] Do you have one more piece of advice for us before we wrap up?
Tracey
Yeah, sure. We, as creatives tend to put a lot of pressure on ourselves, this idea that it has to be good, it has to be perfect, it has to be, you know, x or y or z, which is a thing that could have stopped me last weekend, when I realized that this had to be a different book. You know, I could have sat there thinking about, "Well, why wasn't it perfect the first time?" And as a Catholic school girl, that is very much a thing. [laughs] I tend to have in my repertoire that nuns whip that just comes out. [laughs]
So one of the things we talked about in the creativity class is things that you can do to relieve creative pressure, when you do have those moments where you feel like "It should have been this way," or "It should have gone that way" or "I could have done this better," or any of those kinds of very defeating words. What are the things that you do to get past that? Because it might not be easy to get past that, you might need some stuff. And that's what your friends and family are for, I tend to say, "Why have them around if they're not going to be there to earn their keep?" [laughs] Like, "Why do I have children if not to entertain me? And take care of me in my old age?" [laughs] "Like, these are the only uses the two of you have. Entertain me now, take care of me later."
Georgia:
You must get a lot of eye rolls in your household. [laughs]
Tracey
[laughs] They largely ignore me, actually. That's why I got the dog. At least he pays some attention to me. You go to your people to relieve the pressure of working and the idea of being perfect. I have a lot of writer friends that we are in groups together and we can talk to each other about stuff that's going on, get advice, and it's just that kind of thing that's sort of like puts a little puncture in the in the can so that you can relieve a little pressure. So you're not like, "Oh, other people think like this too," and just even knowing that is something that is helpful. Or just saying, "You know what, I'm not working today, I'm going to go sit with the kids and I'm gonna watch five hours of Amazing Gumball. Or I'm gonna go take the dog and we are going to go on a hike." Y
So these are the things that you need to think about because those moments will come. And when those moments come, because it's so easy to get stuck, if you have a plan that's your go to plan, you can just immediately turn to that. Relieve the pressure that you need to relieve so that you can come back to the work more easily and quicker. So you're not sitting there wasting time in a pandemic. "Why haven't you written 80 books yet?" [laughs]
Georgia
[laughs] Turn off Bridgerton and write something. Well, that is great advice. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I know this advice is gonna be really helpful for our listeners and hopefully it, kind of gives you a little shove if you've been needing to get writing. If people want to watch your videos that are on this topic. What is your website?
Tracey
It is traceybaptiste.com. And there's a video section in the menu so you would basically just go to traceybaptiste.com/videos.
Georgia
I will link to your website in the show notes and also if people want to hear more from you, you are also on our episode 29 titled Caribbean Mermaids and Evil Spirits with Tracey Baptiste. And I will put that link in the show notes as well. And, of course, you can all find Tracey and our MFA in Creative Writing program. It's low residency, so it's great for those who are still working full-time, raising families, etc. It's a great program and I'll have a link to that in our show notes as well. If you have any questions or topics you'd like for us to cover on the podcast, you can email me at news@lesley.edu and Lesley is L-E-S-L-E-Y. We'll be back in two weeks with another episode.
