Georgia Sparling
[music playing] This is Why We Write, a podcast of Lesley University. Every episode we bring you authors from the Lesley community to talk about books, writing and the writing life. Saraceia J Fennell is a Lesley Creative Writing alum who has her hand in just about every area of publishing. She's a book publicist, the founder of the literary festival The Bronx is Reading, she sits on the board of several publishing initiatives, and d she's the editor and a contributor to "Wild Tongues Can't Be Tamed: 15 Voices from the Latinx Diaspora." Today, we'll talk about how her identity as a Black Honduran woman has influenced her passion for books and for more representation of Honduran and Central Americans in the book world. So, welcome to the show.
Saraceia J Fennell
[music fades out] Thank you so much for having me.
Georgia
I know you're a busy lady [laughs]So I'm glad that you were able to come on. And I'd love to start by talking about "Wild Tongues Can't Be Tamed." which is how I first discovered you and first heard about you, and that's been on tons of book lists over the past year. So for those who aren't aware, would you talk a little bit about what the collection is?
Yeah, absolutely. The collection is representative of voices from the diaspora. 9 times out of 10, people will automatically assume in their mind what a Latin person looks like, and they normally don't look like me, right? You're not thinking of someone who is Black, someone who's Indigenous, someone who's queer, etcetera, etcetera. Society, has droned into our minds that they have beautiful blonde hair, blue eyes, and like that, very dramatic and like that, that is what Latinx person looks like. And growing up, I didn't really see that representation and it's very frustrating. But in addition to that, I think that so many people have these myths and stereotypes about us that they just automatically assume things and it's like, "no, that's not true."
Saraceia J Fennell
So this collection is sort of, in some parts, tackling those stereotypes and those myths, but in other parts, it's also talking about topics within the Latinx community that have sort of been taboo, things that we have been told not to talk about. So that's, identity, you know, the racism within our family and within our communities, mental health, depression, suicide, "the bad immigrant," and several other types of stereotypes and issues that not only impact the Latinx community, I think it impacts like immigrant communities and communities of color as as well. And so this collection, it's geared towards young adults, but I really tell people that it's for all ages, because we all, as a human race, we struggle with our identity in general. Some days you wake up and you know exactly who you are. And then some days you're like, "wow, like, who am I? Who am I today?" "Like, how am I gonna get through my day?" "I'm dealing with XYZ, 123." There are all these things that are happening. So I wanted to bring together wonderful dynamic writers, some fan favorites that people might recognize right away like Elizabeth Acevedo and Meg Medina, but then some new writers who are just getting started like Janel Martinez and Mark Oshiro, who, they've published a few more books recently, but I figured I know these people personally, or have read their works very widely, and I felt they had a special story to tell, and a nonfiction story to tell. I wanted us to focus on our truths, focus on what life was like for us, either as a young person growing up, or just how we dealt with and connected with the Latinx community.
The collection came together very nicely. The prompt was for each of these writers was either talk about something that's a stereotype and then subvert it, or let's talk about something that has happened in your life that is not normally talked about within our community. And so each of the contributors kind of pitched different things that have happened in their life. And I was like, "Okay, this is the one where you seem the most passionate about" or "this is the one that seems to evoke a lot of emotion. I think you should write that and focus on that."
The last thing I'll say really quickly is fiction is wonderful. We have a wide variety of Latinx, Latine authors writing fiction, but you don't necessarily see nonfiction. And so that was really important to me for this collection, because I didn't want people to pick up the book and say, "Oh, yeah, wonderful fiction collection, but like, some of this stuff probably couldn't happen in real life." And it's like, no, you are reading something that has actually happened to this real life person, and now you can connect on a different level, because we all connect with books, in some capacity, we'll feel empathy for the villain or empathy for the main character, but then when it's a nonfiction piece, you're like, "Wait a minute, I had those same feelings," or "I'm struggling with that same exact thing. And you mean to tell me this author, who was so successful, also went through this and overcame this in this way, or felt the same feelings that I'm feeling" It just helps you connect on a different level
Georgia
Yeah. And was this something that had ever been attempted before? Or, as far as you know, is this kind of a unique undertaking?
I don't think something like this has been attempted before, specifically in the in the young adult audience. There has been an uptick in nonfiction titles for young people, which is amazing. I'm so happy that nonfiction is having its moment. But in regards to a specific community coming together to tell their truth, I haven't seen it. The closest thing I can think of is actually of fiction anthologies, two of them, edited by Ibi Zoboi, "Black Enough," is the title of that anthology. And it was just stories written by all of these Black individuals writing fiction stories about the Black experience. Again, it was fiction, so, similar concept, but not necessarily for the nonfiction market. And then there's also a few other anthologies that I feel like have the spirit of what I tried to encapsulate with this anthology, but nothing straightforward has been done, especially for the white audience.
Yeah. And as you were saying earlier, there's kind of a wide range of topics that are covered. There's sexuality, race, identity, colorism, gender, I mean, it really runs the gamut. I didn't finish the book yet, but the stories that I read are very, very personal. In your own, it fits all of those categories, checks all the boxes, and it's called "Half In, Half Out," and it touches on your life, starting when you were eight, and you're removed from your home, and put into foster care. So was that the story that, when you kind of came up with the idea for this boo, was that story, the one that you knew you would tell?
Saraceia J Fennell
You know, honestly, it wasn't. I actually wrote my essay last.
Georgia
Oh, interesting.
Saraceia J Fennell
Yeah, it was a very interesting strategy. [laughs] I also just agonized over what am I going to write about, because there were so many different points in my life that I was like, "I could write about this, or I could write about this, or I could write about this." And then I kept thinking, as I was editing all of these essays, and like reading everyone's, going into their trauma memories, basically, and I was like "You know what? A lot of it started in our childhood." For most of us, it was like, either in our middle grade years, or high school years, or like college years. I noticed that we were like school aged children, basically. And I started to think about that a lot and for my essay, I started to wonder like, "Saraceia, when is the first moment where you felt challenged? Like someone challenged your identity, someone challenged who you were, or someone made, you feel like you didn't know who you were, and you just felt really lost and like, out of control?" And it was when I was taken out of my immediate family that I felt like, "Oh, wow, I went from this normal day to day, seeing people who look like me, or even didn't look like me, but I knew we were all people of color, right?" And my comfort zone and then to just go from East New York, Brooklyn, [laughs] to an affluent part of Brooklyn where there's just more white people and I was just like, "Wow, and now I'm in foster care living with a white woman who doesn't know how to do my hair, but also I'm going to a school." It was just a lot of stuff happening and having teachers be confused by like the only two or three Black students in the classroom and experiencing all of that. And I kept going back to that moment of being this young person and people sort of asking me, "Where are you from? Because you don't look black, you look mixed, like you look some type of exotic." And that was new for me.
I vividly remember those memories growing up, and not really knowing what to say. And I'm just like, "Well, what do you mean? Like, this is who I've been, all the eight years of my life so far since I've been on this earth." It made me notice that as young people, right, you reach a certain age and though, sure, your parents are raising you, you're learning things in school, you still have this sense of curiosity, and you still have this sense of, you don't belong, because you don't look like what I normally see. So we automatically start to build up in our mind like, "We're going to other you, because this is not what I'm used to seeing. This is not what is normal. So you're outside of that circle for me." And that's how I felt as an eight-year-old. And I was like, "I have no idea what to tell these these kids, when they're asking me where are you from? Or why do you look like that?" And it was such a weird experience. And I was like, "If I'm feeling this, other people are feeling this." But it was sort of the same thing, in high school, it was the same way. As I got older, same way, talking about hair, talking about skin color. And then it made me reflect to think about the things that my family did as well. And it ultimately came down to, like you said, my essay tackles a little bit of everything, which is like, identity, racism, colorism. Just all types of stuff, where I'm like, I don't know what's happening, but it made me ask questions and made me, try and get the answers from my family, but also to define how I would like the world to see me, and not necessarily how the world sees me. Like, I don't have to accept that at face value. They see just a Black woman. I can still define who I am.
Georgia
Yeah. And one of those definitions is, as a Honduran American. [laughs] I was reading an essay that you wrote, and you were talking about how Honduran and Central Americans are underrepresented in the States in not just books, but makeup, movies, TV. Why do you feel like this is an area that hasn't seen the spotlight? Or a people group hasn't seen?
Saraceia J Fennell
I think what frustrates me is we do exist, we're here. Hondurans are what the eighth largest population here in the States, and we're still getting more people coming in, especially now with everything happening in the world. I's just so surprising to me that we're not seen more in media, we're not seen more in book publishing, because we're here, right? We do exist. And I think it's just the opportunities aren't afforded to us. And I think when it comes specifically to the Latin American media scape, they tend to not put people who look a certain way in the spotlight. Unfortunately, we just see that across the board.
And I can speak specifically for book publishing. We use catch all terms like "Oh, this is a Latinx or a Latine inspired book," or whatever, but it's like, "okay, that's a huge community, though." What country is it focusing on? What culture? Let's really break it down. Let's go niche. And sometimes we are able to go niche. You'll see a lot of Puerto Rican stories, Dominican stories, Cuban stories, Chilean stories, but then where's everyone else? You don't see the Honduran, you don't see the Guatemalan and etc, etc. And it's very frustrating.
Actually, while I was in the program at Lesley, I was really interested in writing a Honduran inspired fantasy and my mentor was like, "Okay, yeah. Let's research books about fantasy and try to find some Honduran fantasy," and we couldn't find anything. Nothing existed, and I think that was really the first moment for me where I was like, "This cannot be true. That's impossible." And after research, I was like, "Wow, there really isn't anything for Hondurans." There's lots of like, Mexican inspired, which is part of Central America, but I'm like, "Okay, but that's Mexican inspired fantasy. I want Honduran inspired fantasy." And it just didn't work out.
So from there, having my eyes opened, I've just been paying attention in the publishing industry. And I'm like, "Wow, there's a serious lack of diversity when it comes to the Latinx community," and it's really sad. A few people have asked me "What can we do to diversify it?" The key thing is, we actually have to go niche. When you get that pitch from an agent or writer that says, "This is a Latinx or Latine or Hispanic inspired whatever," okay, but like, go niche. I feel like when when we talk about Black literature, even, you'll say, African American, or African or Nigerian, or etc, etc, we kind of have to do that. Because not all of our experiences are the same. We're not a monolith. And I think people need to start to understand that about communities of color, really, because there's always these intersectionalities that are kind of forgotten about or left out. And it's like, no, there are so many stories that still need to be told. [laughs]
Georgia
How did you get into writing? How did you decide to start telling stories?
Saraceia J Fennell
I come from a family of oral storytellers and that's usually how that tradition was passed down to me. But when I landed in foster care was really when I became a reader, an avid reader. I didn't really touch on this in my essay, but I had to go to therapy, once I was transitioning out of foster care to go back with my family. And I was just filled with a lot of anger. I went to anger management and saw lots of therapists and we had a family therapist, as well. They really encouraged me to write. So I was always writing, my feelings and stuff like that, and writing like little poems, but they really channeled like, "Okay, keep a journal and write consistently, like, every single day. You have to write your feelings, work through these things." And so having that practice actually made me feel like, "Oh, I could be a writer," because journaling is essentially you telling a story, right? It's you telling a story about your life, and like recapping your day, but I would go back and read some of the stuff. And I'm like, "Yeah, that is exactly what happened." And then continue on in the journal. So that was sort of how I started.
But I will say, when I really thought that I could be a writer was in high school. My English teacher named Miss Madera, we still keep in touch, she gave us a class assignment where we had to write a poem. And I wrote a poem and she was just so moved by it. She encouraged me to write a longer poem, and then that longer poem turned into a play, believe it or not, and we performed it. From there, she was, like, "You are really talented. I think that you should keep writing, I think you have something here." And that always stuck with me. It was the first time someone really acknowledged my creative writing, in a way where I was like, "Alright, I can do this. This can really be a thing that happens."
But I never went to college for it because I didn't know anything about the publishing industry. I didn't know anything about MFA programs, either. Later on in life, I discovered all of these things and kind of stumbled into the publishing industry, and stumbled into becoming, an author and a writer, which is to say that I was probably already on that path since high school, but it just wasn't a very clear path, if that makes sense. [laughs]
Georgia
Yeah, definitely. Who has a straight road to their career? Not many people. [laughs] So speaking of Lesley, what brought you to our MFA program? And what what did you focus on while you were there?
Saraceia J Fennell
Oh, man, I mean, the mentors. There was Tracey Baptiste, Jason Reynolds. They're both amazing. They tweeted about it, a couple years ago, they had tweeted about, like, "Oh, we're teaching at this MFA program," and I had just started researching MFA programs. And for me, the programs are great at every school, that's a given. Otherwise, they wouldn't have the program up and running. But for me, it was really about the mentors and who I wanted to study with. And Lesley had fantastic mentors and I was very fortunate to work with the two people, I just named: Tracey Baptiste, and Jason Reynolds, and a few other people too.
What I really also liked about the program was that you could learn from someone on the fiction side, or learn from someone on the poetry side. So you could kind of mix and mingle a little bit, it wasn't so regimented, where you're like, you're only going to be in the Writing for Young People, and you can't interact with anyone else during the program, because some MFA programs are like that, it's strictly you stick to your genre. I thought that was amazing. I feel like Boston was also very accessible to me from New York. [laughs] I didn't have to fly across the country. So that was also fun.
Georgia
You focused on young adult on Writing for Young People?
Saraceia J Fennell
I did, I focused on Writing for Young People, and shout out to David Elliott, he was another of my mentors. I didn't think I could write a picture book, but working with him, I was able to craft something. I learned a lot from the program and I admire all of the mentors. I mean, I got to work with A.J Verdelle, as well. She actually worked with me on some of my nonfiction stuff. Like I said, it was just such an amazing experience. I always recommend the program to writers that are looking, especially those who are like, "Okay, I think I want to write for young people, but I also am interested in fiction," and I'm like, "Lesley is a good program for you because you can work with mentors in the writing for young people, but still take like seminars and workshops and things like that with the fiction folks." So yeah, it's a really great program, and so many wonderful mentors. [laughs] I miss it so much. I'm kind of like I want to go back. Like, is there such a thing as like another MFA? They're like, No, you only get one MFA. [laughs]
Georgia
[laughs] I think there's certificate programs, though, or something. I know people go back for stuff. Not to turn this into a commercial or anything, but I know people have talked about that [laughs]
Saraceia J Fennell
Yeah, you can always go back. But they're like, "it's just one degree." [laughs]
Georgia
[laughs] And so you do have obviously a focus on young readers. Where did that come from? Is that from your own experience?
Saraceia J Fennell
It's definitely from my own experience. So you know, I didn't come from a family of wealth. I was in foster care, so I also saw other other kids who didn't have the same opportunities, as some of our more affluent classmates and things like that. I feel like for me, young people are being shaped, right? Because they're the next in line to become the change makers, to become the entrepreneurs, to become the people that are going to save us, right? And so my focus is on young people because I want them to be exposed to as much as possible.
For me, I did not know that authors could be living breathing people. I thought, you wrote a book, you died and then people read your work. Same thing with art. I thought if you were an artist, you became famous after you died, right? Because the way we study in school there, you're like, "Oh, is this person still alive?" And 9 times out of 10 You're reading dead white men in school for literature and you're like, "Okay, can we read someone who's actually alive, that I can like go and Google and maybe meet at a book signing?" [laughs] And so, for me, I want people to see that because once you see it, then you can achieve it, right? Like your mind expands, your mind is open.
The work that I'm doing here in the Bronx, it's the poorest county in the US and it kind of really sucks because I think about how could the Bronx be one of the poorest counties when we have, it's also like the literary capital. I feel like everyone, you know, comes to New York to do publishing business, basically and it's just so bizarre to me because you walk across a tiny little bridge and your on the Bronx from Manhattan. And it's like how could the literacy rates be so low here in this borough? How can these young people not have access to books? How many libraries are shut down, either because of funding or because they're under renovation, etcetera, etcetera. They're just all of these factors that are affecting young people. And I'm like, no, what can we do to make sure that the next soldiers to become changemakers have what they need? Because once they're well informed, they can make better decisions. These are the next voters, right? I just think about that all the time, the next chefs, the next, whatever you can think of this, this is the next generation for that.
A lot of people will say to me, a lot of young people in the Bronx, like the older ones, like the teens, they're like, "Oh, I don't like to read." And I'm like, "Well, why don't you like to read?" And I try to explain to them, "You may not have to enjoy reading for pleasure, but you still have to understand and be literate, because you need to negotiate a lease, if you get a job, you need to negotiate a contract." And I'm like, "There are these other things where the written word comes into play." So it's not only about reading for pleasure, it's also about reading so that your life is in good shape.
We talk about gentrification, and the kids are like, then they come back to me, and they're like, "You know, what? You are actually right. Like, I didn't even think about that." "I know someone whose house was sold right from under them, because they didn't know what they signed," etc, etc. I'm like, "That is my point." So it's not just reading for pleasure, it's also reading to have a better life, to improve our way of living, especially for communities of color, and marginalized people.
Knowledge really is power, and that's all we have, sometimes at the end of the day. So it's really important to me that I empower young people to see that, because a lot of people their mission is read for pleasure, read to escape, read for this. And I'm like, yes, do all of that. But also, let's read to help someone like me, who came from an immigrant household, having to read and help and explain things to elders in my family so that they understand. We see it all the time, how the written word impacts our lives.
And so that's what drives me because I'm like, when we become adults, we can still learn, but we have other responsibilities. You're trying to put food on the table, you're trying to take care of your family. Sometimes, education has to be has to be put off. But if we can invest in our young people while they have the time, we can share those resources with them, they can really change the world for us. I know, that was such a long answer.
Georgia
Right answer. [laughs]
Saraceia J Fennell
But yeah, I try to explain that, because the young people that I'm tackling are the people that were like me. They grew up in the projects, or they lived in foster care. And so for people like that, the first thing on our minds is not "Let me go read a book." [laughs] Not "Let me go and educate myself," It's "How do I survive? What can I do to make sure my family's alright? What can I do to survive being in foster care?" Or, "I'm about to age out of the system, I gotta find a job and get my life together." And so it's finding a way to have a real life conversation with them to say, like, "Yeah, reading fiction. That's great. But I also want you to be literate. I want you to be an informed individual so when you go out into the world, you are set up for success, and not set up to become another statistic." For me, that's what it's really about. Reading for pleasure, but also reading to lead a better life. [laughs]
Georgia
Well, and to that end, you founded "The Bronx is Reading." I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about more about that. I know, part of the mission is to get young people to have more access to books and literacy. You have, I think, it's an annual book festival, which is awesome. You've had some pretty big names that have come to that. So talk a little about where is that going right now?
Saraceia J Fennell
Absolutely. So it's a multifaceted sort of organization, I guess you can say.We do have a book festival. It's the largest book festival that happens uptown. I'm very, very proud of that. And we've definitely had some wonderful names like, Sonia Manzano, who played Maria on Sesame Street, such a dream come true, and she's amazing. And obviously, I watched her growing up and learning to read, and et cetera, et cetera. So it was like a dream come true to host her.
Through that program, it's basically held outdoors and it's like a book party, because I want the readers to come, but like I told you, my mission is to get those non readers who are like, "I don't care about books," I still want them to come to the party. So the festival has always been held outdoors in a very accessible place called Fordham Plaza here in the Bronx. And people really do just come over. They're like, "Oh, I can get free books or free swag. Okay, I'll definitely do that." We partner with other organizations, whose message aligns with us. We also partner with the New York Public Library. They'll usually come and hang out and sign people up for library cards, I tell people all the time, books are expensive. So I totally get it, The Bronx being one of the poorest counties. So definitely, making sure that families who are bringing these young people or even adults that are coming in, if they can't afford a book, there's an opportunity for them to get a free book or to sign up for a library card and be able to check out books on the spot.
We are celebrating our fifth annual book festival this June. And then "The Bronx is Reading" is also currently crowdfunding to bring a brick and mortar children's bookstore here to the Bronx. We've never had one in the borough before. And my mission is definitely focused on young people so we're hoping to offer up this space where they can come and not only shop for books, but also use it as a community space to gather around the written word. And hopefully, we'll be able to host workshops and stuff like that as well.
Georgia
Wow, that sounds amazing.
Saraceia J Fennell
Yes. [laughs]
Georgia
[laughs] So, as you got that going on, are you working on any other writing projects?
Saraceia J Fennell
I am. I am currently working on a few essays. So I think everyone has sort of, in the last two years been dealing with COVID. And it's brought up lots of feelings, probably like grief, and anger and anxiety, and etc, etc. But I know for me, it's also made me reflect a lot about family and what matters and things like that. So I've been writing essays about different points in my life, but also like, the feelings that have been coming up from the pandemic. So I've been working on that. And then I have a few short stories for some anthologies that I'm a part of that haven't been announced yet. So yeah, I've got some stuff cooking. [laughs]
Georgia
Great. That's amazing. [laughs] And so for people who want to follow what you're doing, what's the best way for them to do that?
Saraceia J Fennell
Yes, absolutely. Follow me on social media. So I am @sj_fennell across every social media platform, pretty much. I think I'm just not on YouTube. [laughs] I'm on Instagram, Twitter, I'm on Twitter way too much, even though I'm like on hiatus, but I'm on there still. [laughs] Instagram and TikTok and on Facebook as well. I do have a newsletter, where I will send out chunks of recaps of everything that's happening. So if you want to sign up for that, you can. It's called Black Girl Dreaming, obviously inspired by the great Jacqueline Woodson's book Brown Girl Dreaming. [laughs
Georgia
[music playing] I'll include all that in our show notes so people can have a link to that. But thank you so much for coming on today. This has been just a great conversation.
Saraceia J Fennell
Thank you so much for having me. This has been amazing.
Georgia
And that's a wrap on season four of Why We Write. Thank you so much for listening. We're taking our customary break for the summer and I expect reading a few books in prep for season five. If you have suggestions for who we should feature in the fall, or topics you'd like us to cover, drop us a line. You can reach us at news@lesley.edu. That link will be in our show notes along with information about today's guest. Thank you again for listening and have a great summer. [music fades out]