Georgia Sparling: This is Why We Write, a podcast of Lesley University. Every episode we bring you conversations with authors from the Lesley Community to talk about books, writing and the writing life.
Hi, my name is Georgia Sparling and I produce this podcast. Today I'm speaking with Cassie Stossel and Emily Lee, two graduates of our MFA in Creative Writing program, who have recently started a newsletter called Sit Down and Write. We're going to talk to them about what it's all about as well as what they’re writing and how the coronavirus is affecting their work and reading. Emily and Cassie, Thanks so much for joining me today.
Emily: Thank you for having us.
Cassie: Yes, thank you.
Georgia: How did this project come about? I'm not sure, when did you guys graduate?
Both: In January.
Emily: Yes, we're fresh grads. Yeah.
Georgia: Awesome. What prompted you to create this newsletter?
Emily: I think just after we graduated, we knew we were going to be missing the community we have formed in Lesley. Obviously, we still had it, we had each other.
Emily: We have good relationships with our mentors as well. It was just a way to keep it going, if that makes sense. Talking about writing, the writing process, how other people manage to actually sit down and do the thing, which always, kind of, ends up being the challenge.
Georgia: You both graduated from our MFA in Creative Writing program as I said. What areas did you study in that program?
Emily: We were both in Writing for Young People
Cassie: I was just going to say, I really liked that we get to hear from a lot of different writers, their process. It's inspiring to us to keep writing when we read how they go about it and how they also have challenges just sitting down and doing the work.
Georgia: Tell us a little bit about what the newsletter is?
Emily: It's basically an interview in two parts. The first one is a set of stock questions that asks every writer the same thing: Do you believe you have to write every day? Do you have to do like eight loads of laundry before you sit down and actually do it? It's fun because they're the same questions in that first part, but their answers are so different, which is comforting because you always think you're the one doing something wrong. Then you see these people who have done it and they will say, "No, actually, I write in my bed under six blankets and no bra," and you're like, "Okay, great."
Everyone's process is different. Then in part two, we get into the projects they're promoting, the books that just came out, what they're working on, all that fun stuff.
Georgia: What kind of books do you guys tend to lean towards for the newsletter?
Cassie: Kind of all over the place. We've read a lot of YA already, a lot of literary fiction, a couple of thrillers. We're sort of open to everything. What's been great is, as Writing for Young People, we tend to read a lot in our genre to learn the craft. This has given us the opportunity to step outside maybe what our norm is. We found some really amazing projects that way.
Georgia: I was reading through some of them today just to have it fresh in my mind. I'm really impressed with who you've gotten to speak to so far. You guys have, I think five or six interviews under your belt. You already talked to Rachel Harrison, she has a super buzzy book called The Return that's on my to be read list. You talked to Clare Pooley of The Authenticity Project. How have you been able to-- How have you approached these authors, especially when it's such a new project?
Emily: I think we both benefit from our day jobs in this regard. Cassie works in publishing. She is a publicist so she knows what works and how to get in there. I work at iHeartRadio in New York, and I used to work on a podcast called The Public Library With Helen Little, which focused on author interviews as well. I had some connections and then we just have few people we didn't have any connections to. We just did it the old-fashioned way, cold-called, well, cold emailed. Just shot our shot and went for it.
Cassie: I think a lot of authors if you'll notice, we've talked to quite a few debut authors, are really excited to talk about their new projects. I think one thing that we all have in common is we all are curious about each other's writing process. I think that's just an intriguing way to go about it. We're all learning from each other.
Emily: Honestly, unfortunately, you've seen in media over the last few years, a lot of great media outlets that covered books so well and so thoughtfully have either, suffered layoffs or have been shuttered completely. There's been, not necessarily a lack of outlets, because there are a lot of outlets out there, but it just feels like it's dwindling constantly, the coverage that books get. We want to add something to that as other things go away.
Georgia: I feel like, as an avid book reader myself, I'm always looking at book lists and seeing what people are recommending. It does feel like there's definitely a grassroots movement to support books and especially independent bookstores and debut authors, and things like that. There's Books-a-Gram so this feels like something that fits really well into that space.
Cassie: Also, in this time in history, a lot of debut authors are getting their events canceled, no signings. A lot of our bookstores are closed. We've actually upped our interviews just as something positive in your inbox instead of all the coverage of everything that's negative. We've found that we're able to support, especially debut authors that way who were heartbroken over not being able to go out and tour this book that they finally get to put in the world.
Georgia: I know that there's, everybody's trying to figure out ways to keep promoting their books right now. So, what's your strategy for the books that you include? Is it just books you're interested in? Do you try to focus on more independent authors or what's your strategy?
Emily: I don't know if we go for any one thing. Especially once you make a connection with a publicist, they may reach out again about another one of their authors that may not have been something we would have found on our own. Of course, we always have our favorite genres. I know like Cassie and I were just talking recently about how with everything that's going on, we are always now looking for something a little lighthearted, maybe a romance, that's what we're in the mood for now. Then we did The Return, which is definitely not a romance and not super lighthearted right now.
Georgia: It's a horror story, right?
Emily: Yes. It's very creepy, you want to read it with the lights on.
Georgia: Stick it in the fridge when you're not with it.
Emily: I may not have picked that one up at this current time on my own because I may have been reaching on the shelf for something a little candy-coated, a little lighter. Ultimately, I was so glad I read it because it was such a page-turner. It was exciting and I really enjoyed it, and I was so glad that I got the opportunity to read something I may not have thought to in the first place. It's fun how that happens organically once you start reaching out to people.
Cassie: I felt that way about The Herd, which is a thriller set in a woman's coworking space where the founder goes missing and it's like a who done it. Emily, having been picking up romances and more along the lines of some of our early interviews like tweet cue stuff to make us really feel good. Once I started reading it, I literally spent a whole Sunday and just read it and I was like so engrossed in it.
It was actually nice in a similar way that a romance takes you out of the current event. This also took me out but put me somewhere else. I was really thankful for that too because I might not have wanted to read something along those lines while I'm home and depressed.
Georgia: How do you find books, to even just start the process of figuring out who you might want to reach out to?
Emily: Definitely being on Twitter for me helps me stay in the loop about what's coming out. I remember like a couple of years ago, I was not really following, I just wasn't aware that there was such a community of book lovers, readers, writers on Twitter, or even Instagram. Then over the last couple of years, I started following more and more of them and basically my entire Twitter feed now, is just books, like truly book. Writing.
That really helps because you're seeing what books people are talking about, what has buzz months or even a year before it comes out. It really keeps you in the know, which has been great. I've definitely found a lot of books that way. Then even just reading, going on Goodreads, seeing what's coming out month by month. There's definitely a lot of ways to find something that catches your eye.
Cassie: Definitely, social media. In my day job, I work with nonfiction authors on building their platform. I spend a lot of time on social media myself. Like Emily said, especially Twitter is really ripe with both a ton of authors talking about their books, but also really supportive groups of people promoting other authors' work. It's really easy, like every time I log in, there's just somebody talking about their book. Especially now, lots of authors are being innovative about doing digital book tours or virtual events. I found that sometimes I'll tune in to something there, reach out to their publicist and just say "Hey, here's what we have to offer. Is your author interested?" I found a lot. Social media is just really valuable here.
Emily: It also goes to show how important author websites are because a lot of authors have their websites set up they'll list their publicist on their website and it makes it so much easier because you can kind of just get like cut right to the chase. If you don't have a website, you definitely should.
Cassie: I appreciate that offer platform plug, Emily.
[laughter]
Emily: Come on guys, let's do it.
[laughter]
Cassie: Build your platform now.
Georgia: There's this great thing called the internet now, I think it's going to catch on.
Emily: Sometimes we have to go the long road and like find the general publicity email for the publishing house, hopefully like a specific publicist will then get back to us but it's so much easier when you just list your publicist for us to find.
Cassie: Exactly, and so much marketing relies on the author now so if you're your own advocate and putting that information out there, coverage will come to you.
Georgia: Yes, don't make everybody work for it.
[laughter]
Yes, I love the questions that you have. I feel like your newsletter is very much kind of in the spirit of what this podcast is about, not just about authors and kind of what their books are but about but how they even have gotten words on the page.
As you guys have spoken and emailed with authors, what are some of the big takeaways that you've had or some of the advice that they've given or insights into their writing process that's really helped you guys?
Emily: Definitely the most common piece of advice they, authors, will give people who are trying to get published is to just finish your draft or to let your first draft be as shitty as it needs to be to get it done, and that done is better than perfect.
Cassie: Yeah, as they would say in the MFA program, shovel the sand.
Emily: Yes.
Georgia: Nice, can you elaborate on that?
Cassie: You got to just get through your first draft. You can't make anything beautiful on the first draft so you have to just get it out there and all the writing really comes in the rewriting.
Georgia: As you guys sit down to work on your own stuff, has this newsletter made it easier?
Emily: I think just what's going on in the world now has made it more difficult.
Georgia: Oh, yes, definitely.
Emily: Like, trying to feel normal now is hard but it definitely is comforting to me when you see people whose work you admire, who are doing the thing that you're trying to do, say they also procrastinate, they also have a hard time. Sometimes they can't write every day, it makes you feel better when you're having a day when you can't just sit down and write.
Cassie: Yes, I'd agree with that. I think finding the comfort that we're all sort of trying to do the same thing no matter what level you're at, whether you've published a ton of books or you're just starting out that, really, the hardest part is to sit down and do it.
I think I'm really fascinated, one of the questions that we ask is about writing rituals, which I've always just been fascinated by. I always look forward to that answer from the author. I like to compare my own writing rituals against theirs.
Georgia: As far as your own writing goes, can you guys talk a little bit about what you're working on right now or even maybe with some of your processes?
Emily: Yes, you want to go first, Cassie, or should I?
Cassie: Sure, I just finished my first draft of my full thesis that I was actually working on at Lesley.
Georgia: Congratulations.
Emily: Yay, Cassie.
Cassie: Thank you, I was amazed I was able to actually write during this pandemic but once I finished that draft, I've taken a two-week break from any writing. I finished that draft, which is really something I've been working on for the better part of five years, and really, the reason I chose to apply to an MFA program. Now, I'm getting ready to pick up something that I had worked on a little bit that's much more lighthearted, a romance, so I'm excited to dive into that.
Emily: Man, and then me.
[laughter]
When I was in the program, I worked on two manuscripts and I finished one shortly after graduating, so now I am out in the querying trenches. Hopefully, that will go well, time will tell.
It's a YA contemporary about a-- How would I describe her? She's the daughter of two uber celebrities and her parents kind of are involved in a MeToo-esque scandal, so she flees Manhattan and goes to Ireland to working on anonymously as an au pair.
[laughter]
Then, of course, hijinks ensue
[laughter]
Emily: Of course. It's funny. When I was working on it in school, it was very low stakes, not a lot of drama going on, and Cassie had to get on me about having something happen because, really, nothing was. That just goes to show how important your writer friends are. Then, I want to finish my thesis, that's my next goal. I did the minimum requirement-esque page count, word count, that's what I got to for that. Hopefully, that will be finished one day because I’ve been working on it for a long time, and I would love to not look at it ever again.
Cassie: I feel that way too.
[laughter]
Georgia: How is it been for the two of you as friends, one, to get to know each other as writers and also, to support each other in your work?
Emily: Having Cassie, and we’re close with two of our other friends from the program, Merlin and Abby, finding them was the best part of getting my MFA, worth every penny, I say. They motivate you, they inspire you, you can complain, and they get what you’re complaining about. I could complain to my boyfriend, and he would just be like, “Cool” there's not a lot to offer there, but I can turn to them, and they get it, which is always really nice.
Cassie: I'd agree. We always reflect on how crazy it is, how much we've been through together in the two years, that it took to go through our program. These three women are some of my best friends. I trust them completely with my writing, they really helped me get through life things. It's invaluable to be able to send your work to people you trust, and await the feedback, and really take that in, and make the changes. We're all really supportive of each other's work. Whenever anyone wins, it feels like we all win, which is really just lovely, and you don't get that everywhere else, in every other industry, even.
Georgia: Definitely helps to have a community around you to tell you to keep doing it.
Cassie: Yes.
Emily: 100%.
Georgia: I'm wondering a little bit back to the newsletter, how have you guys gotten a word out about it? I'm not exactly sure when-- did you start it in January?
Emily: Yes. January, our first one went out.
Georgia: How have you gotten people on board to subscribe, and everything?
Emily: I think we, for the most part, have relied on word of mouth with friends, family, and even the Lesley writers have a little Facebook group that you join when you're in the program, and we've shared it there. Even, just social media, Twitter, definitely, is probably the best vehicle for sharing it because there's- like we said earlier, there's a huge community of both published authors and authors out there in the trenches, trying to get their work published now. Mainly, our target audience is those writers who are looking for a little advice, little inspiration, and you can definitely find that on Twitter.
Georgia: As, you guys, continue to work on the newsletter- you said, during the Coronavirus, we're all stuck at home, you're going to try to release interviews more often. Do you have a schedule? Do you know when your next one's coming out?
Cassie: Our next one is coming out on Monday the 13th, it's an interview with an author named Rebecca Dinerstein Knight, it's about a book called Hex, that just published on March 31st. Then, we also have one scheduled the following week, on the 20th. That one is with an author named Sophie Gonzalez, about her book Only Mostly Devastated.
Georgia: I think I've seen that one, it had a good cover, I think [laughs] Not that we judge books that way.
Cassie: Yes. It’s a great cover.
[laughter]
Georgia: It was a really nice cover. Are there any authors on your bucket list that you would love to have in the newsletter?
Emily: That's a good one.
Georgia: Or any buzzy books that you really would love to feature?
Emily: I think a dream interview for me would be Casey McQuiston, she wrote Red, White and Royal Blue, which was my favorite book of 2019, close to being my favorite book of all time. It's so good. It might be. I think I read it five times in 2019. It just came to me at a time when I needed a little light in my life, and when that happens, I feel you’re in such a deep emotional connection to a book, and that happened to me with that one. She has another one coming out in 2021. That's probably, she would be my big one.
Cassie: It's time to dust that one off again, Emily. Read it again.
Emily: I know. If you haven't read Red White and Royal Blue, you definitely need to.
Cassie: Amazing, I think I've read it twice also.
Georgia: I’ve heard great things about it.
Cassie: I have a couple. I read Jenny Slate's book, Little Weirds and it was the opposite of what I was expecting from somebody who is a comedian. It was just really beautifully written and sometimes I didn't even know necessarily what I was reading. It was just so poetic and beautiful and lovely. I actually ended up reading, having my sister read an excerpt from it at my wedding last October and if she ever writes anything else, I would absolutely love to chat with her.
Then more recently, my favorite book I probably read this year was Normal People by Sally Rooney. I think, she's just at the beginning of her probably very stellar career and I anticipate she'll be writing more books and I think she would be really interesting to speak to.
Emily: I went to one of her readings in New York City right after Normal People came out. It was great. She would [crosstalk] definitely be fascinating to speak to.
Georgia: I have that book, it's on my shelf downstairs right now. I’ve heard it’s amazing.
Emily: That's really interesting.
Georgia: I thought it was amazing.
Cassie: One thing that's really interesting about her writing is she doesn't use quotation marks. which is [crosstalk] I just I would love to ask about that.
Emily: Yes, like tell me all the things about this.
Georgia: I feel people in the UK and the British Isles, they tend to play with that more or there's sometimes it feels like there's different rules for them. I just finished an Irish book, The Milkman by Anna Burns and I mean, that one was an interesting format anyway. It was really long paragraphs but none of--I don't think any of the dialogue had punctuation.
Cassie: So interesting, I love ones that, like, break the rules like I mentioned Hex earlier and she writes a lot of it in second person, which is just, seems, one, really hard to pull off and two, you just don't see it a lot, so when I was reading it just like startled me but in a good way.
Georgia: It is fun when people play with form and push the boundaries of what you're used to.
Emily: Jason Reynolds is a big supporter of that. He’s always pushing us to use the words in a physical way on the page. That's something you can learn if you come to Lesley and work with Jason.
Cassie: We actually, I think, Emily, we had exactly the same mentors, right? All four?
Emily: Yes, we did. The only two that we didn't do at the exact same time were Tracey and Mickey. We did them in reverse.
Cassie: We had Chris and Jason at the same time.
Emily: Yes.
Georgia: That's Tracey Baptiste. She was on the podcast last. She's done an interview for us, and then she also was interviewed. She's amazing. I love her.
Emily: We're big Tracey fans.
Cassie: Big Tracey fans
Georgia: What are you guys reading right now?
Emily: I'm actually reading, an ARC of Stephanie Danler's upcoming memoir Stray.
Georgia: An ARC is advanced reader copy.
Emily: Yes, advanced reader copy. I got it sent to me at work a few months ago and we were going to try to do something with it there but then everything fell apart and we're all home now, and so I had it. I brought it home with me when work from home started, and it's surprising because it's not something, it's not super light. It's about her relationship with her parents who are both addicts, but her writing is just--It's really gorgeous. She talks about California in a really beautiful way. I'm not done with it, but so far so good, recommend.
I also loved her novel, Sweetbitter. Her writing is really singular.
Cassie: I'm currently reading an arc of Head-Over-Heels by Hannah Orenstein. That comes out in June and I'm excited. I'm going to do a reread of Wild by Cheryl Strayed because I feel like I always go back to that book when times are challenging.
Georgia: Excellent. Before we wrap up, what's your advice that you would give to somebody listening to this podcast who needs to sit down and write?
Cassie: Can I steal some advice from the Lesley mentors and say shovel the sand?
Georgia: Yes, of course.
Cassie: We always echo that in our group text.
Emily: I was going to say complain. I think if you don't get the complaints out, they just sit in you and prevent you from doing anything, but once I complain about having to do something, I can go ahead and do it.
Cassie: Definitely. One thing too that I've found incredibly mind-shifting is the save the cat method of outlining. Before I was never an outliner and I just let my character show me what they were going to do, which didn't really serve me. Now, I've found using the save the cat beat sheet has really changed my writing and the way I go about writing and it makes it easier to actually sit down and do something because I know what I'm going to be working on that day.
Georgia: Wait, why is it called save the cat?
Cassie: I'm probably going to butcher this, but the original was for screenwriters where no matter how bad the character is, if you give them a moment where they quote-unquote save the cat, then there's still a saveable character or the reader will still empathize with them if they have that one glimmer of goodness in them. It's weird, but--
Emily: It is life-changing now.
Cassie: It is. We've all taken the sheet and changed our stories significantly because of them.
Emily: I also just think learning to love craft books is also very helpful. I think some people think that craft books are bad or in some way, but you can only be helped by reading as many craft books as possible.
Cassie: And as many books as possible.
Emily: Just reading in general.
Georgia: You guys list Stephen King's On Writing is one of the, kind of a jumping point for one of the questions in the newsletter. What are some other ones that you guys recommend?
Emily: The Wonderbook by, Oh, my God, I'm blanking, Jeff VanderMeer. I think some people will not pick that one up because it's ostensibly for fantasy writers or science fiction, but you can take the lessons from that and apply it to world-building and contemporary stories as well. Because even if you are writing in a real-world setting, you still have to bring that setting to life, so I really enjoyed Wonderbook.
Cassie: I'll say Saves the Cat! Writes a Novel. It's by Jessica Brody. It was the original version made specifically for novelists, and she breaks down popular novels into the beat sheet to prove that it works in every case. I also really enjoyed--I'm trying to remember the name of it. It's by Sandra Scofield-- The Scene Book.
Emily: The Scene Book? Marble notebook cover.
Cassie: AJ says we have to have a dictionary.
Emily: Oh, yes, the favorite dictionary.
Cassie: What's that big-book?
Emily: The Synonym Finder.
Cassie: Yes, the synonym, Rodale.
Emily: Oh, yes. Rodale's.
Georgia: That's AJ Verdell. She's one of our faculty. Earlier in the season, we have one of the podcasts is her seminar and she talked about that book that you have to buy it, so I did.
Cassie: Her seminars were game-changers. All of them.
Emily: Yes, mind-blowing to put it lightly.
Cassie: I have her revising she actually tacked to my wall right in front of me where I'm sitting, so.
Georgia: You'll get lots of good stuff if you come to our MFA program, definitely. Well, thank you guys so much for talking to me today. I loved hearing about it and I love your newsletter and I'm really excited for the other recommendations that come through that way. I was wondering-- People can go to sitdownandwrite.substack.com. Is that correct? They can subscribe that way. Where else can people find you?
Emily: We don't have like a dedicated account for Sit Down and Write but we, both of us, often share the links and the information for it on our own Twitters. I'm @emilyleewrites on Twitter and Cassie is?
Cassie: I'm @earthtocassie on Twitter and Instagram.
Georgia: I'll include all of those links in the show notes so people can find you and they can subscribe. Well, thank you so much. This was awesome.
Both: Thank you.
Cassie: This was really lovely.
Georgia: Thank you for listening. Find transcripts for all of our episodes, show notes and more at Lesley.edu/podcast. We’ll be back in two weeks with another great episode. In the meantime, would you rate and review us on Apple Podcasts? It will help people find the show.